Meta question about John Sheppard

[selenic76.livejournal.com]

After such a long trip back home I haven't even had the energy to write my Squee Weekend report, but this fic idea I was thinking about isn't leaving me alone, and there's one thing in particular that bothers me: is being a pilot, or flying, an integral part of John Sheppard's personality?

I'm doing a song inspired fic (To Speak Is A Sin by Pet Shop Boys), an AU, and I found myself thinking about this. Is flying something John has such a passion for, that he always finds some way to do it? Would he go nuts if confined to life on the ground? If he's not a pilot, what else could he be, that would satisfy his need? Did he join the military just to annoy his father, or because it was an easy way out of the future planned for him, or was it something that he felt was the right thing for him to do?

It's been too long since I've rewatched enough SGA to answer this with certainty, and I don't want to write him to be a pilot just because that's what he was on the show, so please help me out fellow fans, and let me know what you think! :)

Once again it seems I can't just go and write a simple little story, but get stuck on thinking about the things behind things *sigh*

Ok, going back to pondering now, and recovering from the flights...

Comments

Yes?

[melagan.livejournal.com]

*waves*

In Rising John Sheppard says to General O'Neill, I think people who don't want to fly are crazy.

Clearly this is a passion for him. Whether that love for flying came before, after, or during the military is entirely up to you.

Re: Yes?

[selenic76.livejournal.com]

Oo, I forgot about that quote :) I was just thinking, since we talked over at SW about how using certain character tropes too much, and so I started wondering :) Thanks for the answer! ^_^

[that-which.livejournal.com]

I think we're supposed to think it's related to his need to be isolated. I think maybe the sky is like Antartica, a place with very few people in it.

I remember a fic, though, which pointed out that he thought Atlantis could mean never flying again, which is a hell of a suicide run for John Sheppard.

[selenic76.livejournal.com]

That's what I keep thinking, that for John flying is essential, like science is for Rodney. But I had never really stopped to think if there was any other angle to view things from. Thank you for the input, appreciate it! ^_^

[aadarshinah.livejournal.com]

I think its inherent to who he is. Flying has often been equated with freedom - freedom to fly away from all your troubles, freedom to go where you will - which I think is part of it, but more than that I see John genuinely enjoying it. He likes fast cars and ferris wheels - and I think he likes outwitting people.

More so than with Jack, who he's so often compared to, his solutions to problems seem to be outside the box. There's still that self sacrificial quality to it, but he thinks a little tangental to the ordinary military thinking. "The Eye"/"The Storm" is filled with him tricking the Genii to reduce them to manageable numbers. "The Siege" has him flying the jumper into a hive ship, which certainly never would have occurred to most people. And so on..... To that end, I think he enjoys flying - and is so good at it - because he can outthink and outsmart his opponents, who seem often to forget they have 3 dimensions to work with in the air/space.

In short (before I digress further). I think the flying is inherent to who he is. But more so is what is expressed in the flying - the speed, the out of the box, the so on. Does that even make sense?

[selenic76.livejournal.com]

I think that makes a lot of sense! I was worried about getting stuck on John being just the flyboy, when I know he's so much more than that. I know there must be other options for him, but I couldn't get a handle on what they might be. (It just occurred to me that not so long ago I read this totally believable regency fic by sgamadison, where John owned and raced horses :) That would be an expression of that same desire for freedom, etc.)

Thank you so much for this, it helped a lot :)

[aadarshinah.livejournal.com]

Oh good. I thought I was rambling.

[selenic76.livejournal.com]

No, you weren't :)

And I may still end up writing John as a pilot, or at least someone dreaming of flying or having a pilot's license etc, but it's good to have this more in depth angle on his character :)

(my bf suggested he might be a former drag racer whose car has blown up and he doesn't want to talk about it :D Not bad ^_^)

[spikespet7.livejournal.com]

I think John sees flying as his life......his freedom....his escape....his everything....could be that is what separated him from Nancy, because she didn't even compare to flying. I also think he's one that likes speed, and why he flew jets, so riding motorcycles......


Kimber

[selenic76.livejournal.com]

I totally agree, I think there's a strong correlation in his mind with freedom and things that go fast :D A motorcycle might be a good substitute, the bf suggested drag racing! :) The whole fic idea is just forming, so I'm not sure what I'll end up doing. Thank you for the comment, appreciate the help! ^_^

[starwatcher]

.
I'm thinking flying is freedom & escape, as others have pointed out, but maybe the speed is just the cherry on top. He likes "anything that goes over 200 miles an hour"... but he also likes Ferris wheels (the epitome of slow) and was happy even flying a helicopter, which is also not fast (for a flying vehicle).

So I wonder if flying isn't a combination of "freedom" and "complete control" for John -- for the time he's flying, there's no one who can countermand his decisions. But also, his life is tied to his complete control of the machine -- complete concentration because if he makes a mistake (especially at 200 MPH) he could easily crash and die -- so his freedom and escape is combined with a thrilling edge of danger.

So, yeah -- fast planes, fast cars, fast motorcycles, fast horses -- if 'X' is the most valid outlet, I think he'd use 'X' the same way he uses flying.

But I also see John rebelling against his father. Dad didn't want him to fly, so he went out and became the best pilot he could, partly to spite his father. But I'm not sure how much of that is supported by canon, and how much I've ingested from fanfic. <g> BUT, if his life-choices were in part a rebellion against his father/family, he could be anything his dad disapproved of, from teacher to cop to underwater photographer.

But as mezzo_cammin says below -- your story, your choice. Have fun!
.

[selenic76.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for this in depth answer! Excellent point about the control, I think that must be the other thing that drives John. He wants his freedom, and to have control over his life, which is probably due in part to how things went with his father. I guess I've always known this intuitively, but had a hard time putting it into words, so this was really helpful :)

As for the fic, it's still just a bunch of uncoordinated ideas, who knows what will become of it, but this discussion had made all the difference in helping me create a backstory for any AU John I might create now or in the future.

[mezzo-cammin.livejournal.com]

I've read AUs where John was not a pilot and/or Rodney was not a scientist, and they've worked, definitely. But, having said that, the AUs where John IS a pilot (of any kind) and Rodney IS a scientist (of any kind) seem to ring more true, at least to me. The thing is - it's your story, and John can be whatever you want him to be, and if you want him to be a pilot, there's absolutely nothing cliche or trope-ish about that. What does your story want/need John to be? That's the question. :)

I do wish we'd been given just a little more backstory for John. On the other hand, it means you can make up your own, and whatever you come up with, you're not wrong. Right?

[selenic76.livejournal.com]

The problems was that I was just starting to build John's background story, when I started thinking about if writing him as a pilot once again was just repeating the obvious trope :)

I'm still not even sure what my story needs, but this discussion has helped me a lot in forming a better image of what is essential to John. For Rodney it's certainly science, for he can't really help being so intelligent, but whereas being smart is an internal quality, flying is just something that John does, and I needed to better understand the internal thing that drives him to it.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this, they were helpful! ^_^

[vecturist.livejournal.com]

Having two cousins in the AF, both of who are pilots, I can honestly say flying is their life, particularly for my cousin B who flies F16s. First as a fighter pilot, he is the elite of the elite (and can probably get away with a few things). Second he's admitted he will fly until he can no longer qualify - he wasn't too upset when he was posted to Seoul South Korea from the US - with the bases he was at in the US, he only got a couple of hours in the air vs. 7-8 a day patrolling the DMZ.

I also have a friend of a friend who is an experimental test pilot - he wouldn't trade his job for the world.

[selenic76.livejournal.com]

That was interesting, and also helpful, thank you! It's always good to hear how people are in real life, makes writing about things feel more authentic :)

I'm certain flying is almost like breathing to John sometimes, and if I don't write him as a pilot, I have to find something that would in some way answer to that need of his to be up in the sky, and feel free.

[popkin16]

I agree that flying is an inherent part of who John is, something close to essential to him. But I'm also interested in how that evolved: I wonder if flying started out as as means to anger his father and get out from under his thumb. But once he started, maybe he quickly realized just how much he *loved* it.

[selenic76.livejournal.com]

Excellent point! That's one of the things I haven't really thought about, since I tend to write John with more of a gut feeling on how he is, instead of doing detailed planning and thinking.

Suddenly I was just struck with the idea, that how would he fare in a world or a profession where he could not fly? And that lead to me thinking about what really drives him to fly, and can anything replace flying and give him the same things it does.

Based on all the responses I got, I no longer feel like making him a pilot once more would just be taking the easy way out of my problems :) But I will keep thinking if there's something else that might fit my story, once I get a better handle on how the story will go... (me and my messy way of building stories *sigh*)

At least I know that Rodney will always have something to do with science or something that requires a brilliant mind, I think he'd just go insane if he didn't get to use that incredible brain of his for something other than mundane stuff

^_^ Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on the matter!

[popkin16]

John's always going to want to fly, I think - no matter how he started, flying has becoming incredibly important to him. But if you put him in another profession, for whatever reason, I'm certain you could make him believably happy. John probably *would* replace it with something else: motorcycle riding or something.

Rodney would totally go insane if he couldn't utilize his intelligence :P

SGA Newsletter - September 21, 2014

[livejournal.livejournal.com]

User neevebrody referenced to your post from SGA Newsletter - September 21, 2014 (http://sga-newsletter.livejournal.com/787985.html) saying: [...] : Meta question about John Sheppard [...]

[brumeier.livejournal.com]

Lot of good information here! My two cents? John's need for speed is canon, so if there's a way to work that in without flying I think it would still be okay. Racing cars, horses, motorcycles, downhill skiing...anything fast that would also not be approved of by his father.

Because I believe a lot of him joining the military was a way to stick it to dad while still doing something he loved. I don't think John would do well in a corporate setting, not without some kind of reckless outlet.

I love when Rodney is a scientist, but I also love him as a musician, applying his talents to scales and creating orchestral pieces. I think there are other avenues for his analytical mind.

This is why I love AUs so much. Because you can really tweak backstories while still trying to find a formula that keeps the characters as close to what we know as possible.

Good luck!!

[selenic76.livejournal.com]

My story is just bits and pieces of ideas at the moment, but I love playing around with them! :) AUs are fun, but also more work than just going more with the canon, so many things to think about!

You're right, I really can't imagine John in the corporate environment, unless the fic is about him escaping it, or unless he has some wild hobby :)

Rodney and music, ♥! I love stories that take his musical talent into account, and let him feel better about it, always hated how in canon he was told he lacked creativity though he had talent :( I'd be afraid to write a musician!Rodney AU, simply because I know it would take a lot of research for me to make things sound authentic :D

Thank you so much for your two cents, every little bit helps my thought processes ^_^

[mcparrot.livejournal.com]

Answering this without reading through all the other comments first, so I may well be saying things other people have mentioned. Sorry, but if I read first, I tend to get sidetracked.

I think flying is an integral part of John's makeup, because it is part of mine. I can't imagine my life without the sky in it. And yet, until I (nearly accidentally) learnt to fly in my early 20s, it had never occurred to me to want to. But once I had... it became something I couldn't let go.

So I can understand that once John found flying, even if he hadn't had a passion for it as a youth or child, it would stay with him in some respect.

What I do get annoyed with in fics is the way it is portrayed, that if John left the airforce he could never fly again. What rubbish. If he left the airforce he'd have the freedom to fly what ever craft he liked (money permitting and he has that - right?) where ever he wants. What he wouldn't have is the purpose to his flying that the military gives him. That I think is the important point.

And because of that, I can see John becoming one of the Reno Jet pilots, or a Red Bull air racer or something equally high adrenaline, with hero worship attached. I can't see him taking up wingsuit flying, because that really is suicidal with no purpose (although he might try it once for fun). I toy with the idea of having him fly gliders and competing internationally in that very challenging game, but I can't really see it.

To me, being a pilot, means being just a little bit better than the rest of you that walk around on the ground and never know the existence of air currents, wind direction or how to recover from a spin. Being a pilot makes me special. John needs to be special. I can see him, in a similar situation to me once, being told off in a work situation, and I sat there, and looked at this woman, and thought, "Yes, I might have stuffed up. And Yes, you are quite possibly spoiling my career. And yes, I am supposed to respect you and look up to you. But. I can fly. (and you can't.)" John would do that in his head too.

My two cents. Going to go read the other comments now.

[selenic76.livejournal.com]

Oh, wow, this answer is like pure gold to me! O_O I didn't really think I'd get someone who actually has flying experience to tell me what it feels like, and this opens up John's mind to me in ways nothing else could.

It's interesting that you didn't really dream about learning to fly, but once you did, it became something integral to who you are. I think that might have been the case for John too. And an even more important thing, you make note of there needing to be a certain kind of purpose behind the flying for John. I agree that being in the military offers that purpose, and that he would go in search of such a purpose in other professions. He might try something as a hobby, like you said, but not for a living.

And I get it how being able to fly means you feel just a little better then the rest of us earth-bound humans :) (And never for a moment did I think you meant that you despise us, or anything like that.) I get the same feeling from realizing that not all people have my imagination, that in my head I can go to places they can't, create characters and worlds, and never be limited to just the planet my body currently inhabits :)

Thank you so much for your comment, this was truly helpful in me understanding John better. Since the story in my head is just forming, I don't know what shape it'll eventually take, but all the information I get from these comments will be useful for many a fic to come in the future ^_^

[mcparrot.livejournal.com]

Leonardo Da Vinci said it very well, hundreds of years ago.

"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will long to return."

And while checking I had the wording correct I found this page. So if you want more of the same... LOTS more of the same, have a look
http://www.skygod.com/quotes/quotes.html

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

I have always felt that John's passion for flying was related to the ATA gene. That it was about maneuvering an object through time and space. In my head canon, I see his mother as a sailor extraordinaire--her ATA gene manifesting itself in Atlantis' affinity for water. For John that affinity manifests itself in Atlantis' ability to fly. I see both of them as children of Atlantis.

For John, I also see that flying in the one place where he is one with machine. Where there is nothing between him and himself in a way. It's freedom, but it's also peace.

[selenic76.livejournal.com]

That is a really interesting angle on things! I've always thought that having the gene makes John have a bond with Atlantis, but I never considered it might actually somehow contribute to his desire to fly.

I really like your head canon about John and his mother. Feels right to me that she's the one he inherited the gene from, and it must have influenced her life some way too. Having the gene affect you in different ways, like having and affinity to water or air, is a brilliant idea that could and should spawn many fics.

Also a wonderful point about John being one with the machine, be it a puddlejumper or Atlantis. I'm sure for him it must be the ultimate form of flying, short of growing wings or turning into a jet himself :)

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, they were helpful as well as fascinating ^_^ (I really need to save all this comments somewhere for future reference!)

[resqueln.livejournal.com]

Interesting question! From a canon POV I'd say that it is integral to Sheppard's character. In every canon AU we see*, Sheppard is or has been a pilot. It's only in Vegas where he no longer flies - and in Vegas he's a lost and broken man. To my mind, that's no coincidence. :)

*Except Mensa!verse where I don't think Rod specifies whether he's a pilot or not?

[selenic76.livejournal.com]

Now that you mention it, Vegas!John really is more broken, and I bet not flying has something to do with it! Though I think me might find some sort of substitute, flying is probably what John ends up doing in most 'verses :)

This whole discussion had been really interesting and helptful, thank you for your input, I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts ^_^

[resqueln.livejournal.com]

Vegas!John really is more broken, and I bet not flying has something to do with it!

Just my interpretation here, but I think him not flying is more of a symptom of his brokeness rather than the cause. A kind of 'I don't deserve to fly' deal, because of the guilt he's carrying about the people who died.

[resqueln.livejournal.com]

Oh and you're welcome. Any excuse to discuss SGA. ;)