SGA squee

I suck at leaving feedback, always have. I've stopped being ashamed of this quite some time ago, especially when some authors started to complain their feedback basically wasn't good enough for them (What the... I can't even...How would...).

BUT now there is AO3, and thanks to them I can, with just the push of one single button, live a Kudo to any story I happen to like.
As a writer, I like getting kudos a lot more than worded feedback, because I have no idea how to answer that feedback (a crappy "thank you" never feels enough), just as I have no idea what to say in feedback (a crappy "well done" never feels enough).
The rare times I write (and you wrote with me, so you have witnessed this), I do it for my own pleasure (or eventually to share some kinky pleasures with a fellow writer/live audience). I don't need feedback (because I'm both my worst critique and my number one fan, feedback is unnecessary when you're mental like me :p). If people like my stuff enough to give me a kudo, or a like or whatever, just to click on my story to begin with ? Then that's plenty enough for me.

Fandom is very very far from dying, in fact, fandoms have never been as popular as they are today because there have never been so many ways to share about them. I'm following a few fandoms on Tumblr, and man, I wish it had existed when SGA was at its starting point, because the medium is a hundred times more interesting and fun to share than LJ ever was.
Yes, LJ feels all grown up, where we can have discussions and stuff, but really, it can also get a bit boring; fandom is about the fun of posting a gif (of John and Rodney kissing, just saying) and seeing a millions notes on it because people can't stop reblogging the fabulousness (I'm not in the supernatural fandom, but come on, the Dean picture as a gym teacher thas has been reblogged over 14 MILLION times is the best love letter I've ever seen on the Internet).
By comparison, I always felt left out of most things on LJ because you had to look so hard to find anything, to find people related to your fandom and everything. The new medias (like Tumblr, but also probably like other medias I don't know or use) make everything easier, you can find fandom-related people in a heartbeat, you can have all the information about anything in the fandom in a second and so on.

(cont in part 2, thanks to LJ still living in the 14th Internet century)

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Is fandom changing ? Yes, of course it is, I mean it has always been and it always will. It went from super private fanzines written by a few and sold at small conventions in about 20 exemplars at most to writing fanfics in the first discussion groups on the interwebs, to yahoo groups to fanfiction.net to LJ, but why should it stop there ? Dreamwidth made publishing a story longer than 10k words possible, and people went there, AO3 made... well, everything possible, and people went there. Twitter made your stars accessible, facebook... errr, not sure what that did, but I'm sure it did some crappy thing to fandom.
Fandom will always evolve with fandom.

Is fandom dying a slow death ? Ahahahahahaha, not as long as people have an internet access. People might feel like they are left behind if they don't evolve with fandom, of course, but in no way does it mean that fandom is dying.

Of course, if a writer still needs lots of comments to keep on writing, then the new medias aren't going to be what they are looking for, because people, especially younger people, will not take the time to leave a comment. They've got used to the "like" button or the equivalent of it, and if that's not enough ? Then I'm afraid it might be asking for too much of them. Then again, established writers are somehow embracing the new medias, and from their own words, they have never felt more close to their audience as they feel right now, so it's a giving and getting thing maybe ? I dunno.

Fandom is also changing in the way that there are no "big names" in fandom anymore, it's no longer a sort of private clubs where some people used to be the elite with adoring fans. The new medias gave people a sort of equal footing. The lurker posting a few nice pictures/gif/thoughts will now get as much attention as writers once did. And it doesn't mean writers get less attention, they get as much as they once did, but now this attention is no longer focused on them all the time.

I'll be honest, I like the way fandom is working now, and even though I don't participate in any fandom much these days I still feel more part of the ones I follow than I ever did before. The new medias have changed fandom in a way that fits me a lot more than the "old" medias did. In fact, I can't wait for the next evolution, and I'm curious as to what new ingenious system the fans will invent to keep sharing the love (also, yes, I love that the new medias make it a lot easier to focus on what you like rather than to have a billion pages argument over what you didn't like).

Well, my comment went all over the place, didn't it ? Nevermind, it's because I haven't posted a comment on LJ in a million year (at least). I don't know if I even answered the question... was there even a question ? But it felt like the place to talk about fandom, so at least I did that... I think.

(to be clear, I'm talking about fandoms in general, not the SGA fandom in particular)

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I think feedback is the 'currency' of fandom. We don't pay our friends for the art, the stories, the fan vids we love, so we tell the artist how much we love their work. The creators of such work don't demand (or at least, they shouldn't!) to be paid; they create out of love for the fandom. But getting feedback is a drug that stimulates the artist to create more. They'd do it anyway, releasing their stories much like Noah released the dove every night at the end of the flood, hoping it would come back with signs of habitable life out there. The day the dove came back with an olive branch must have been a day of celebration on the Ark! ;-)

I saw a wonderful quote by Gale Harold on this once: Criticism is a surreal state, like a good drug gone bad. When it's bad you wish it would stop, and when it's good, you can't get enough. (Gale Harold)

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sgamadison and I had a lengthy discussion on this prior to her post. I do agree with you that it's difficult to write in a void. If you don't receive acknowledgment of how your accomplishments (whether it be art or writing) is received by your community, then you're essentially left hanging. There is definitely a hive mind within fandom. Obviously within that hive mind there are subsets. Certain tropes that catch fire, certain tropes that only championed by a few. Ships are an excellent example of this. But feedback has always been a way to acknowledge not only the writing but also a sense of where you fit into the community as a whole.

I never leave negative feedback and I try to always leave some sort of feedback if I like a story. It's an acknowledgment that the writer has spent time creating something that I have enjoyed and I want to acknowledge that enjoyment. I know that the kudos thing is a hot-button issue but it seems to me that in this day when feedback is as rare as hen's teeth, that I would like to at least know that people are reading my stuff and enjoying it rather than thinking that NO ONE is reading it. Because let's face it. People are not leaving feedback, but that doesn't mean they aren't reading. Kudos are a way of at least tracking that you are reaching the community.

Feedback is always couched in terms of feeding the author's ego. But it has had many roles in fandom (and this is my issue with the new social media), and one of the key things is communicating with people and making friends. New media? Essentially one-sided. It's about shouting out what you like. Shouting out what you hate. Or reblogging something you like, essentially just taking someone else's creativity and appropriating a percentage of it for yourself because I personally believe that reblogging is much less about what you're reblogging about so much as you're saying, hey, I'M reblogging about this. But this is another subject.

Writing in fandom has always been the most tried and true ways of making friends in fandom. Until now. Personally, I think the role of fanfiction has changed drastically. It is still being written but nowhere on the same level as it used to be. And feedback as part of that old equation had been about finding like minds; people who share your concept. Or enjoy your concept. Or think you're funny. Or whatever. Fill in the blank. I've made some really good friends--people whose houses I've stayed at, who know my kids, who actually know me outside of my fandom persona--and all this is due to exchanges based on feedback.

So yes, fandom is changing. It is becoming much less BNF driven, which is, of course, a good thing, because if you don't really have a yardstick by which to judge a fan (like writing kick ass stories), then you don't have a culture that venerates one person over another. The downside of this is that fandom is now much less personal. I would have a hard time forming real friendships with people from interaction on tumblr. Because you know, it's not very personal. It's the lone voice shouting. It's not about communicating. The back and forth.

THAT is what feedback is. In my experience it was never one-sided. In my fannish career I have made a serious effort to reply to every single piece of feedback I've received. Because you know, people reading me is so frigging marvelous. And people telling me that what they liked or didn't like? Booyah! Let's get a conversation going!

The new social media: It is active? Hell, yes. Is it sustainable? Sure, as long as new shows come along to feed it. That is why it has a tendency to be emo. There is very little to sustain it (no meta, no fanfiction, no hard core communication between fans), so it creates a certain sustainability by creating massive drama. And THAT is where the new social media fails and why fandom is changing. It's not about the exchange. It's about the shout out. It's about "me." Not so much about "we."

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danceswithgary

My livejournal was created for the sole purpose of leaving feedback.

Are you my online twin? I did the same thing and was posting my first story (Smallville) a month later.

I've never received a lot of feedback on my stories, but probably more than most. I try to comment on everything fannish I read or view, although too often it's tough to come up with more than 'I liked this!' or 'Great!' Still, at least I'm letting the author/artist know I'm out there and appreciating their efforts.

To be honest, as my little bit of feedback kept waning, so did my inclination to break through my writer's block. Now, I'm trying to rekindle my love of writing for myself and not the feedback. :-/

Lastly, thank goodness for AO3 because I generally receive at least one kudo every couple of days and that is a HUGE boost.

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So yes, fandom is changing. It is becoming much less BNF driven, which is, of course, a good thing, because if you don't really have a yardstick by which to judge a fan (like writing kick ass stories), then you don't have a culture that venerates one person over another. The downside of this is that fandom is now much less personal. I would have a hard time forming real friendships with people from interaction on tumblr. Because you know, it's not very personal. It's the lone voice shouting. It's not about communicating. The back and forth.

THIS. This and more. Someone recently pointed out to me that one of the differences between tumblr and other platforms is there are no threaded comments there--which explains a lot about why I find it difficult to use and impossible to have conversations there. And that's what I miss, the meaty conversations.

THAT is what feedback is. In my experience it was never one-sided. In my fannish career I have made a serious effort to reply to every single piece of feedback I've received. Because you know, people reading me is so frigging marvelous. And people telling me that what they liked or didn't like? Booyah! Let's get a conversation going!

This too! When someone tells me they loved thus and such line, I get the giggles and go "I KNOW!" with them, as though I wasn't the one who penned it but I saw it on the show with them and we're both squeeing about it. It's the sharing of stuff like that which made the SGA community so much fun.

The new social media: It is active? Hell, yes. Is it sustainable? Sure, as long as new shows come along to feed it. That is why it has a tendency to be emo. There is very little to sustain it (no meta, no fanfiction, no hard core communication between fans), so it creates a certain sustainability by creating massive drama. And THAT is where the new social media fails and why fandom is changing. It's not about the exchange. It's about the shout out. It's about "me." Not so much about "we."

I think you're bang-on right here, which is why it depresses me so much. :-(

Meant to add earlier that I liked your idea of feedback as being currency and used it here--best description I've heard so far! (I knew that had come up in one of the conversations I'd had recently but couldn't remember who'd said it until just now :-)

Edited Date: 2013-06-18 09:50 pm (UTC)

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"There is very little to sustain it (no meta, no fanfiction, no hard core communication between fans), so it creates a certain sustainability by creating massive drama. And THAT is where the new social media fails and why fandom is changing. It's not about the exchange. It's about the shout out. It's about "me." Not so much about "we.""

There is meta, there is fanfiction and there is communication between people in new medias (there is also pictures and videos and art and gifs and everything that people can create about something they love). It just takes a different form. Nothing prevents people from having a talk, or from exchanging e-mails if they realise they might have more to talk about privately.

I've been on Tumblr for about a year now, following old and new fandoms and I've not seen drama yet. Sure, there has to be drama there, even if I haven't seen it, people love drama. But then again, show me one community on LJ that hasn't known drama at some point. Drama is not specific to the new medias (I remember hardcore shipwars when I was in the Dark Angel fandom, and that was in 2001, before I even knew what LJ was...)

What I have been part of has been a sharing of everything we, as a group (and not as an individual) like about a show, or a movie, a book, an anime...
When I reblog, it's doesn't say anything about me more than "oh, I like this, I agree with this, I'm part of the people who embrace this". I don't see how that is more or less egotistical than a blog post on LJ. But then again, maybe that's just me.

Yes, there are downsides to the new medias, it would be pointless to deny it, but they also have good sides and all in all they aren't so different from old medias like LJ.
In the new medias, just like on LJ, it's the community that matters. If the community is made of of egotistical little assholes, then sure, it's going to be rubbish. If it's made of people who genuinely care about their fandom and not about their ego, then it's going to be good.

I still think posting original work on medias like Tumblr is the worst idea an artist can have though. But to share the love of fandom, I think it's a very good media.

As much as I liked LJ and was thankful for what it brought us when there was nothing else, I also like some of the changes new medias are bringing on the table (even though I understand and respect why not everyone would).

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Posting original works on tumblr is a bad idea? What do you mean--as in posting fanfiction or something else? Is it because of the ease of snagging it and reproducing it elsewhere? How does that differ from any other forum? I'm curious because I know a number of people who use tumblr as their main blogging accounts...

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I have seen or felt all of these things at different times. Less with the negative engagement, but it could be that I've just been lucky.

I am least likely to leave comments on a story that already has literally pages of them. a) I'm not coming up with anything new and b) I know the story isn't going to be disappearing anytime soon.

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*nods* I agree with every word :)

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I've always considered feedback to be a gift and that it should be acknowledged as such. No one has to take time out of their busy schedule to leave it so it's wonderful when they do.

It's nice to get a different, fresh perspective on fandom growth. I wish my own experiences with the new medias had gone half as well as yours. I had to learn the ways of LJ after all.

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This feedback stuff can be a wonderful thing! *g*

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And feedback as part of that old equation had been about finding like minds; people who share your concept. Or enjoy your concept. Or think you're funny. Or whatever. Fill in the blank. I've made some really good friends--people whose houses I've stayed at, who know my kids, who actually know me outside of my fandom persona--and all this is due to exchanges based on feedback.

ALL OF THIS

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There might be some twin stuff going on there *g*

I'm really glad you're getting back to writing hon. ((hugs))

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I don't think it is necessary--but I do think it gets tied up into the process somehow. Like

danceswithgary mentioned, if you start getting less feedback, then your motivation can sometimes flag. If you get more feedback in other areas, you start drifting toward those areas. It's not that you do it for the feedback--it's that positive rewards *work*.

I think this is part of the reason people move onto other fandoms. Not just that they've fallen in love with other shows or found new friends to squee over things with, but that works created in new fandoms are getting more notice than something you've been doing for years in an old fandom. You might still create things out of sheer love, but sheer love is greatly benefited when that love is shared.

It was one of the biggest changes between fanfic and original fic. Feedback in original fic is few and far between and not necessarily pre-disposed to be nice. I've come to be thrilled by *any* feedback at all on an original work--but I think too, that's why I pay attention to it at all. ;-)

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...works created in new fandoms are getting more notice than something you've been doing for years in an old fandom.

And this fascinates me on several levels. Does one move to a new fandom for that 'notice'? Or do readers follow their favorite authors along and learn to love the fandom in the process?

You might still create things out of sheer love, but sheer love is greatly benefited when that love is shared.

A thousand times, yes!

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I can't answer for everyone but I know that if I have an interest in a new fandom, having a favorite author write in it means I'm going to find my introduction to it that way. I love the Avengers--but the sheer size of the fandom (and the comic book fans vs the movie fans and the whole bulk of canon that is largely unknown to me since I'm coming at it only through the movies) has made me very hesitant to poke around in the fandom. Not to mention, while I can see the potential for one of the major pairings (Tony/Steve), I also love Pepper Potts and Peggy Carter. So wandering in and picking up just any fanfic is daunting.

But knowing that

zinfic has written some Avengers fic? Yeah, I'm all over that! Or seeing one of my friends (

mezzo_cammin comes to mind) post a Draco/Harry fanvid has me seeing all kinds of potential that I *never saw while watching the movies* and suddenly I'm curious about that pairing and I want to know more. Likewise, I know

pir8fancier and

goddess47 write Snarry, which intrigues me because I want to know *why*. So I have to have a passing knowledge of canon to pique the interest, but the fandom interpretation is what pulls me in beyond the first fan work.

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Feedback is not just about feeding the authors' ego. It serves many functions. This is partly why I think there is this backlash against kudos. Because the potential for connecting is cut off. (Not that I don't love them, because I do.)

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In a lot of the backlash against kudos that I have seen from authors has only confirmed that for them comments are a gigantic ego feed. I can't speak for other authors. For me, feedback has always been about connecting with my writers and fellow writers. It's been the building block, the slow evolution of reader to writer, writer to reader to friend to friend. When you "talk" to someone in feedback, you can't help but reveal yourself. Much as a story reveals who YOU are as a writer. This is why the slow death of LJ is so painful, because that level of intimacy is harder to achieve.

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PART I

There is meta, there is fanfiction and there is communication between people in new medias...they might have more to talk about privately.

tumblr is primarily a visual extravaganza. I've seen, what, two meta posts on tumblr. Had that person posted on LJ two years earlier, she would have received about 500 comments on that post. You can post fanfiction, meta, etc., but that is NOT what is it designed for. It is designed for the expression of squee. Just as A03 was designed as an archive. The fact that you can do all those things doesn't mean it was designed or particularly does those functions well. Emailing privately? That always seemed like a big leap to me. Maybe it isn't now.

Drama is not specific to the new medias

The level of emo on tumblr is acknowledged by everyone I know who has been active on LJ and has embraced tumblr with a passion. It's part of the culture. It's not exclusive to tumblr, of course, but the influx of younger fans and the gradual breaking down of that fourth wall has resulted in a culture that is unabashedly emo. A fandom friend who is very well known in a couple of fandoms on LJ starting "playing" in tumblr and loved it. She began getting comments like, "If you don't get him and ????? together, I'm going to commit suicide." How do you respond to that?

If the community is made of egotistical little assholes...then it's going to be good.

I can't think of a single fandom that hasn't had its drama. And it's nice people. Some fandoms are more explosive than others, but fandom has always had and will always have an "ego" component to it. The point I am making is that the construct of tumblr encourages that behavior. I know several people who embraced tumblr because it was so fun and fast and the squee was amazing. Now they are abandoning it because the structure lends itself to unrelenting drama, even encourages it. I think this goes hand in hand with the violent surge in celebrity culture and how fans now feel so much a part of their celebrity idols' lives that the line between stalker and fan is becoming almost non-existent. It's like all those crazy girls who used to storm the chainlink fences when the Beatles arrived at an airport, except that now they are screaming with their laptops.

The structure of a social media site determines its members interaction. LJ was a nice all-purpose site whose major fail was that it wasn't graphically friendly, but it was ideal for fanfiction, it worked for collective sequee, it was perfect for extended conversation, and it had enough safeguards that you could lurk forever or extend that olive branch of friendship slowly through the mechanism of feedback.

Fans brought up on Facebook don't expect their social media to be particularly personal. If you're checking your email, your twitter, your tumblr, and your Facebook all in the space of 10 minutes, it's hard to get personal. LJ let you get personal; it also took a tremendous amount of time. It was never designed to be flipped through. But this is how a new generation of fans wants to sample its fandoms.

Fandom is ever evolving. tumblr now plays the "squee" role that LJ used to play, and A03 has taken over the archiving role. LJ has always had a love/hate relationship with fandom. There is meta, there is fanfiction and there is communication between people in new medias...Nothing prevents people from having a talk, or from exchanging e-mails if they realise they might have more to talk about privately.

tumblr is primarily a visual extravaganza. I've seen, what, two meta posts on tumblr and, yes, they were reblogged endlessly but they were NOT much commented on. This was a big name in fandom. Had that person posted on LJ two years earlier, she would have received about 500 comments on that post. Based on the Facebook model where it's not about conversation, tumblr is primarily about expressing how you feel. You can post fanfiction, meta, etc., but that is NOT what is it designed for. It is designed for the expression of squee. Just as A03 was designed as an archive. The fact that you can do all those things doesn't mean it was designed or particularly does those functions well. Emailing privately? That always seemed like a big leap to me. Maybe it isn't now.

TBC

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Part II

Drama is not specific to the new medias

The level of emo on tumblr is acknowledged by everyone I know who has been on LJ and has embraced tumblr with a passion. Drama is not exclusive to tumblr, of course, but the influx of younger fans and the gradual breaking down of that fourth wall has resulted in a culture that is unabashedly emo. A fandom friend who is very well known in a couple of fandoms on LJ starting "playing" in tumblr and loved it. She began getting comments like, "I just love ?????, and if you don't get him and ????? together, I'm going to commit suicide." The level of emo has left her perplexed. How do you respond to that?

If the community is made of egotistical little assholes...then it's going to be good.

Every single fandom community has its share of assholes and nice people. think of a single fandom that hasn't had its drama. Some fandoms are more explosive than others, but let's be honest here. Fandom has always had and will have an "ego" component to it. The point I am making is that the construct of tumblr encourages that behavior. I know several people who embraced tumblr because it was so fun and fast and the squee was amazing. And now they are abandoning it because the structure tends to lend itself to drama, even encourages it. I think this goes hand in hand with the violent surge in celebrity culture and how fans now feel so much a part of their celebrity idols' lives that the line between stalker and fan is becoming almost non-existent. It's like all those crazy girls who used to storm the chainlink fences when the Beatles arrived at an airport, except that now they are screaming with their laptops.

The structure of a social media site determines the sort of interaction you have. LJ was a nice all-purpose site whose major fail was that it wasn't graphically friendly, but in every other way it worked well. It was ideal for fanfiction, it worked for collective squee, it was perfect for extended conversation, and it had enough safeguards that you could lurk forever or extend that olive branch of friendship slowly through the mechanism of feedback.

Fans brought up on Facebook don't look for their social media to be particularly personal. It's about checking your email, your twitter, your tumblr, and your Facebook all in the space of 10 minutes. It's hard to get personal when you're flipping through all your social media obligations. LJ let you get personal. But it also took a tremendous amount of time. It was never designed to be flipped through. But this is how a new generation of fans wants to sample its fandoms.

Fandom is ever evolving. tumblr now plays the "squee" role that LJ used to play, and A03 has stepped up to the plate to take over the archiving role. LJ has always had a love/hate relationship with fandom. Even aside from all their stupid breakdowns and changing of platforms and lousy interface with their clients, we have to acknowledge that LJ doesn't now meet fandoms needs.

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I agree with all of the above! Well said!

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Why snarry? Part of it is the attraction of opposites. You can't have two personalities that are more disparate than Snape and Harry Potter. But essentially what I think makes snarry tick and is so compelling to write is that at it's heart the interaction is about forgiveness. Harry Potter is truly the only person who has the power to heal Snape, in essence forgive him, for the horrible wrong he did in setting up his parents to be murdered. It is the ultimate story of forgiveness. IMO.

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I'm just going to touch on the Tumblr aspect here, because I've only recently become a fan of Tumblr. It took me a while to figure out how to communicate there, but it is possible, and very doable. It's that little 'ask' button. I've made a few hockey fandom friends, one of whom I now Skype with (how cool is that, right?) and for me, at least, it's awesome. When I reblog, it's mainly because I want easy access to whatever I thought was so awesome I needed to have it on my dash. *g* But also, I use reblogging to comment and leave feedback, and that has sparked some conversations as well. I'm also seeing a lot of fic recs now, too, which lead to AO3, usually, and I'm all over that. I love it!

I'm with you on the feedback - I always try to leave something positive, and let the author know I enjoyed their story. I think I've only left what I consider constructive criticism once, and that was because the author specifically asked for it. I...tried to be kind?

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Feedback - leave it or love it? Both! I love getting it! I love leaving it! I really do feel like, when I've read and enjoyed a story, I have kind of an obligation to tell the author that. Whether it's a pat on the back and an attaboy! Way to write! Or a more detailed, wow, this part of that fic really blew my socks off! I enjoy the give-and-take. I wish there was a way you could do that with original fic writers, too, you know?

My problem is replying to feedback - I never know what to say, because what I'm usually feeling is 'aw, shucks, you really liked it? That's so great! Thank you so much for liking what I wrote!" and, well, if I wrote that, it might scare people away, right?

I'll go on over to Madison's post for the fandom discussion in the morning. I can't believe it's this late. I was only going to spend an hour catching up on LJ and it's almost 2 a.m. yikes!

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I try to think of Kudos, not as a substitute for comments but as a comment-aid. :)

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'aw, shucks, you really liked it? That's so great! Thank you so much for liking what I wrote!" and, well, if I wrote that, it might scare people away, right?

A perfectly acceptable response, in my opinion *g*

So is 'Thank you'. Even if you write it a thousand times, common courtesy never gets old.

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I am so thrilled for you and

cjoelle *points up* that tumblr is turning out to be such a positive experience. Good to know fandom is alive and kicking and out there

Plus, it's inspiring you to write again and that's just so awesome

Edited Date: 2013-06-19 11:38 am (UTC)

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I meant original work, not fanfiction. And as said below by pir8fancier, it's true that I say that more about visual arts than fanfictions.

The funny/not funny thing is that it's actually much easier to source something, because if you simply reblog an original post, then it's automatically sourced back to the OP. But some people go out of their way to make new posts with the exact same content (I guess they want all the undeserved kudos for themselves ? Is it some sort of ego-boosting thing ? no idea, I just don't get it.)

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Ah, that's very cool. I hadn't thought about it in those terms.

I know you have very strong feelings about writing within what canon gives you. What do you do when canon kills one of your main characters? :-(

I write within what canon gives me as well (within the limits of the fact that I write slash)--which is one of the reasons I am *glad* that SGA ended when it did. The hatred between Mallozzi and Flanigan was becoming hard to hide and if they hadn't outright killed John Sheppard, I think they would have character-assassinated him. :-(

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Well, I can see where that spin might be put on it. I've met some of my dearest friends through feedback--I doubt that would have happened with just a kudo.

This is why the slow death of LJ is so painful, because that level of intimacy is harder to achieve.

Yeah. I don't think we'll see that in these other platforms either. I could be wrong. I hope I am.

You, for example. If you'd been just a kudo on a story, I wouldn't have remembered 'pir8fancier' from one day to the next. Your comment led to us chatting, then emailing. Your encouragement *there* gave me the impetus to submit that first dreadful story to Ravenous Romance (which has still never earned me a dime, but it broke the ground for me as a 'writer'). I can honestly say right now if it wasn't for you in *particular*, I probably would still be convinced I wasn't good enough to be a 'real' writer. Not realizing that fanfic has made real writers of us all.

I owe you SO much! So thank you! I don't think I've ever said that before!

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I want to ask you if you use Facebook? Because in my limited (very limited) knowledge of these things, it seems like a Facebook type of platform. And I'm wondering if people who like Facebook see tumblr as an extension of Facebook for fandom. I'm not a Facebook person so maybe that's part of the problem.

I know a lot of people adore tumblr and I really do NOT mean to rain on that parade. I'm a word-centric person so for me LJ has served me best. But that's a reflection of MY limitations, not anyone else's.

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What an excellent point about kudos. I do look at the names but I can't say that I ever associate a name with a kudo. But I have and do associates pseuds with thoughtful comments. And if there is an exchange of ideas, then that person is someone I will consciously follow--or not :).

I owe you SO much!

Nah. It's about paying it forward, my dear. I got similar encouragement from others. This is my point. It's takes a village. Truly. For me, LJ was a functioning village. I don't see myself functioning on sites like tumblr. I don't see it being my new village, even as people move out of my current village. I hate typing this, but I think I'm too old. I am not someone who is a product of MySpace or Facebook. I don't "get" that sort of platform. I am perfectly willing to concede that this is MY limitation. That doesn't mean that my criticisms of tumblr aren't valid. I think they are. But they clearly aren't a stumbling block (and regarding the drama, I think that attracts people) for fandom as a whole as it migrates over there. The bottomline is that all this is so personal. What I should say is that tumblr doesn't work for me. This is my problem. What I want out of fandom is not there.

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I too am a word centric person. As example visual porn never hits me the way written does. It's a brain thing and why I think I get so quickly bored with tumblr. Pics alone are not enough to engage me nor is the process of random liking.

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What do you do when canon kills one of your main characters?

She writes something like this: http://walkingtheplank.org/archive/viewstory.php?sid=820&warning=Explicit%20Sex/Violence which is all kinds of wonderful. If you haven't read it, you NEED to!!:)

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Well, I use Facebook (now, that's a recent step for me) and I don't see it as working like tumblr at all. I can have limited conversations with people on Facebook--I've started interacting with some on a regular basis. Some of my LJ friends are there now too. But I've never had a single conversation on tumblr.

I follow some tumblr sites I enjoy, like unfuckyourhabitat and equestrianbitches. But it would never occur to me to leave a comment there. I'm there for the post and to see what the pretty is, and then I move on.

I feel the same about Pinterest. Some people love it. Some authors claim it is the next big marketing thing. I can't possibly see how, but there you are. I scroll through the pretty, repin a few I like, and leave Pinterest again for the next few weeks or so.

That's not to say I'm never about the pretty--I really enjoy

daily_flan and some of the other photo comms. But for me, that's desert, not the whole meal. So I guess I'm more word-centric as well.

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A perfectly acceptable response, in my opinion *g*

I'm with

melagan on that one. I feel that way every time. ;-)

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Nope, I have never used Facebook. I don't like it, and to me, it's like, TMI all the time!! I don't really care if you're going to bed now or not, k? My daughter is on it a lot, though, and she keeps up with the family more than I do, posting pictures and such.

I actually tried Tumblr a year or so ago. Didn't like it. At all. But. When Melagan wrote her Harlequin fic, I was looking at the other entries, and saw a Hockey RPF that was really long and had pretending-to-be-married and pining as major plotlines, and I was hooked, even though I was only vaguely familiar with the characters/players. Turns out, a lot of hockey RPF authors hang out on Tumblr, which makes sense, because of the nature of the fandom. Action. Hugs. Dorky team-moments captured on film, etc. Oftentimes a fic on AO3 would reference a tumblr blog, so I meandered over to see what that was about. Which is when I realized how great Tumblr can be, and how it CAN (and does) foment a sense of community. Now, I'm actually watching the playoffs with other hockey fans who write in the fandom and are live-blogging the games - it's an incredibly exciting feeling, for me.

Remember when, after each SGA episode aired, you'd be refreshing LJ every five minutes to see if someone else had written a reaction to the episode, so you could squee or lament with them about it? Same thing, here. People use tags to tell whole stories. Or they post a gif from their show and write a whole treatise in the comments under it. And then you answer that, or reblog it with your own comment, and it goes back and forth and grows exponentially. A gif might inspire a story, or a prompt request, or meta, and to me, it's sort of the best of both worlds. Also, I see a lot of fests on DreamWidth and LJ being blogged on Tumblr, and fans rec their favorite stories, so there is a lot of give and take between journaling and tumbling, which, again, I just love. :)

Edited Date: 2013-06-19 07:48 pm (UTC)

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By the way - what's your Tumblr name? I'm mezzo-cammin over there. Hyphen, not underscore, because the underscore was already taken. Follow me, and I'll follow you back!:)

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I hate typing this, but I think I'm too old. I am not someone who is a product of MySpace or Facebook. I don't "get" that sort of platform. I am perfectly willing to concede that this is MY limitation. That doesn't mean that my criticisms of tumblr aren't valid. I think they are. But they clearly aren't a stumbling block (and regarding the drama, I think that attracts people) for fandom as a whole as it migrates over there. The bottomline is that all this is so personal. What I should say is that tumblr doesn't work for me. This is my problem. What I want out of fandom is not there.

I don't see this as a function of being old. I see it more as a platform that doesn't work for you for whatever reason. Being old would be writing out your stories by hand and paying someone to type them out on a typewriter because you are adamantly refusing to learn how to use one of those new-fangled computers--and yet still expecting your stories to be as accessible as desired.

I didn't like Facebook at first. Most days I still don't. Facebook to me feels like a lot of shouting and horn-blowing and honestly most of the time, it is depressing as hell because I have not a) lost 50 pounds b) won the lottery c) am vacationing in the Bahamas d) have a best seller on Amazon with a movie deal in the works e) drunk f) having tacos for lunch. No seriously, that seem to be the gamut Facebook runs on the average day. ;-)

However, with the decrease in activity on LJ and in the course of looking for my friends elsewhere, I have started spending more time on it, and as a result, know how to use it better, understand its limitations, and recognize the very superficiality of it. Many of my FB friends also spend a lot of time on yahoo lists that I belong to. I find I'd much rather respond to them on FB than on the list because it is easier and faster and the nature of the relationship allows for that. I don't deal well with lists or group chats. It simply isn't my forum. I become easily overwhelmed by a large group chat when I can't walk away from it for a while and come back and pick up the conversation on my own time. That's something LJ allows me to do.

LJ also allows me the right combination of posting words and pictures because I do love taking pictures and I like to share. A picture (or anything else) posted on Facebook *belongs* to Facebook now, something I don't like.

With the dying back of LJ, I've found myself moving my own thinky thoughts posts off LJ and onto other forums. Mostly because there are few people here interested enough to respond and continue the conversation any more. I feel like I'm talking to myself, but I'd rather do that--which I'm comfortable with--then move into forums that make my palms sweat. :-) So I think it is more about comfort level than anything else.

I still owe you bunches! I respect your judgement and advice, and I would have never taken that first step without someone of your influence giving me the push.

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Oh! Oh! Thank you for linking this here! Is it going to hurt very much?

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